| cut and pasted for your reading ease: "You guys may not realize this, but HID projectors and halogen projectors are substantially different. You will NOT get the sharp cutoff that HID projectors give. Without getting into the technicalities, plug and play kits give nowhere near the same performance of OEM HID setups or properly retrofitted HID setups (where OEM projectors are retro'ed into stock headlight housings). You will get blurred cutoff, glare, and uneven lighting - nothing like true HID projectors. And i can guarantee you that this Korean product is not on par with philips product - its just not the case." his response: "Hi Joe, Not sure why people would ask you personally for HID related issues (unless you're known around here to have deep knowledge in these).
However, as an HID reseller for about 3 years now, HID and all things related to it has been my area of focus. You are both correct and incorrect with your "opinions".
The halogen projectors were designed to provide the same "results" as the HID projectors. The difference is, 9006 halogen projectors (found in older cars) sometimes didn't come with the shield inside the lens for the cut-off line. It was done with the use of the lens optics and not with the physical shielding inside the projector. However, the newer halogen projector lens, - like in the case of Mazda 3, Subaru WRX ('06), and others uses H7 application, and it has the same cut-off features like the projectors that are fitted with HID.
This is because, H7 and D2S / D2C bulbs (OEM HID) are very similar in size (bulb base and length). Some of these cars in Japan comes with HID. But for price reasons, North American versions didn't come with HID.
Meaning, they use the same projectors. For example, the '06 Subaru WRX STI comes with HID as OEM. However, the '06 Subaru WRX (non STI) doesn't come with HID, but they both use the same projectors.
Having said that, not all 9006 application projectors are built the same way.
Some Acura Integras- that uses 9006 application projectors have a very nice cut off line. See one of my actual customer's picture below:
As you can see, the cut off line provided by this "halogen 9006 application projector" is on par with the HID projectors. Also, keep this in mind.
Many cars that came with HID as OEM didnt even have projectors. For example:
Previous generation Acura TL 3.2
Lexus IS 300
Infiniti I30
Infiniti QX45 To name a few.
These cars use the optics on the housing to provide "cut off".
Next time you see one of these cars on the road, see if any of these cars give off any glare issues.
In conclusion, it's not wether or not you have projectors, (HID or halogen projectors), .. its all about "levelling".
The unevenness that you talked about is also about levelling. You can install HID on any car (even the ones with OEM HID) incorrectly, and you will get glare. You can also get uneven light beam pattern if you install one bulb upwards or downwards.
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Having said that.. I would also like to respond to your comment:
"And i can guarantee you that this Korean product is not on par with philips product - its just not the case." Again, its confusing to me how you can "guarantee" this unless you are an official licensed HID quality assurance judge of some sort. In any case, it may be a surprise to you that I too once resold Philips kits (about 2 years ago) - exporting it to Korea. You may also not know that Kaixen actually started off with Philips. Since 1999, Kaixen was given the license to resell Philip's bulb and ballast.
Bulbs are one thing, but the ballasts from Philips had more than 15% defect rates. Just because "Philips" is a brand name, it doesnt make it the best in the world for HID lighting. Here are some quick facts on them: 1. Philips does NOT official sell aftermarket HID kits. - They actually deny it, saying they only sell to authorized distributors who sell replacement HID kits for OEM application cars only. 2. Philips does not make various sizes. Philips resellers buy D2C / D2S bulbs in bulk and retrofit / modify them to different bulbs. What you dont know as customers is that these rebasing happens at the resellers shop, garage, dorm room..wherever he may be at. Another interesting fact is that for some sizes, (like H3), you can't retrofit Philips bulb - the size doesnt match. So many resellers use Chinese or Korean bulbs and sell it as "Philips bulb". 3. Philips does not offer warranty on such rebased or modified bulbs. So the warranty is 100% upon the reseller - and you have to hope that he stays in business for a long time, otherwise, you're stuck with a broken kit if it breaks down. KAIXEN actually STOPPED using Philips ballasts since a few years ago already.
The reason is obvious.
In response to Philips kits:
1. Kaixen has been focused in conversion HID kits since 1999 - 7 years running. This is what they do from morning till night 365 days a year. 2. Kaixen makes all of its sizes - including unique ones all from the head office manufacturer facility - no rebasing or modifying involved. 3. Kaixen has been around since 1999, and have provided after service to thousands of custoemrs around the world. It's a choice.
If 300zx owners want to get HID lighting for better light output or looks, its their choice. From what I've seen in person and in pictures, the light output and the cut-off were on par with other cars like the Acura RSX. If they want Philips for the brand name - its also their choice. I know you meant well in the sense that you wanted to give information for other members here. But I felt that corrections needed to be made." My response: A few responses: First of all, my comment about the quality was a little harsher than i originally intended it to sound. I can't guarantee that the quality isn't as good as philips. However, the general feeling in the hid retrofit community is that everything Korean made is lower quality than their german and japanese counterparts. Whether that is the case or not, I'll leave it up to each to make his own decision. No one in the retrofitting community that i belong to has heard of this company - whether that means anything to the general community is also for each person to decide. Additionally, you fail to mention that these are certainly illegal and for off road use only. Plug and play kits are illegal for sale in the united states, and the only way to get away with selling them is to sell them from, say, canada, for example. Every operation based partly or wholly in the united states has been shut down by the dot. As a little introduction to me: my focus in my PhD research has been optics and electronics. HID retrofitting is just a hobby of mine, but i have more than 8 years (college and graduate level) education, with degrees (2x BS, MA) in physics, materials engineering, and chemistry (not really relevant here), and i'll have my doctorate within the year. I know just a little bit about optics, electrical systems, fabrication, and materials properties. Now, on to your points: The 300zx projector is a halogen projector, designed to work with halogen bulbs, and it came with a cutoff shield. It works ok for the amount of light produced by a halogen bulb, but it was the first automotive application of halogen projectors, and is hence old technology (version 1 if you will) - much worse than what is being used now (20 years after the Z32 was designed). With extra light, the projector optics essentially become saturated, and you get hotspots and glare. Plain and simple, it happens, even with current technology halogen projectors, but moreso with old technology. The 300zx halogen projector is poorly suited for HID applications - the optics of the lens, bowl, and cutoff shield were not engineered for that much light, the geometry of HID burners, or the type of emission produced by HID (electrical arc versus glowing filament). You mention the case of H7 bulbs - totally irrelevant to this case, because those aren't the projectors used in our cars (Z32s). Who cares about subraus and mazdas? They developed projectors that work well for HID, and then made mounts that can also accept H7 bulbs - they did this because of cost savings - they only have to make one part for both applications. It doesn't mean that you're getting optimal performance in both or either application. However, again, this isn't the setup for the Z32, so discussion is moot. You mention cutoff. A proper cutoff picture shows a white wall, with nothing in front of it, and nothing but the light on it. It appears to me that your cutoff pictures are misleading. In the first picture, you don't see the wall, and hence don't see the actual light output. In the second picture, you see the wall, but there are many obstacles in front of it, so we can't see the actual cutoff. Additionally, we see lots of shadows around the objects that are above cutoff - which comes from extra light above the cutoff (known as glare - the most dangerous artifact from using HID burners in halogen optics). You bring up the point that some cars with OEM hid don't have projectors. Of course, there are HID reflector setups as original equpiment. However, these are purpose built HID reflectors, and (surprise!), they use a different bulb - D2R instead of D2S. They do this to eliminate unwanted light that typically ends up as glare. OE reflector designed HID systems don't have glare. Take a look at one up close - you'll see the design is substantially different from halogen reflectors. The OEM HID reflector actually cuts off the lower portion of the light, which would be the part that ends up as glare. I agree that HID projectors are better than HID reflectors, but properly exectued OEM HID reflectors are much better than HID burners in halogen projectors or, even worse, halogen reflectors. I'll not respond to the philips/kaixen arguments - which amount to carefully chosen half truths - and just throw out a few points: -Philips doesn't make HID retrofit kits because they are illegal for sale or import into the united states. Plain and simple they don't do it for liability reasons. Philips has a worldwide reputation to uphold, and plug and play kits can't offer performance that would be worthy of the philips name. Addtionally, plug and play kits can be dangerous - most stock halogen wiring is unable to handle the 6.4A per ballast at startup, which leads to arcing and fires.
-Philips isn't just a brand name - it is used as OEM on just about every high end HID setup
-I can't comment on kaixen. Neither can anyone else in the retrofitting community. They appear to make kits only.
-Reading kaixen's webpage, you see many (MANY!) grammatical errors. It is in english, written very poorly. Take a look: here For example:
"We,the Autoline Co., Ltd. will do our best to mark highly efficient in the field of HID System by continuous efforts as well as to serve you with our quality products.
Our product have been also produced with our strict quality control inspection performed by ISO and QS regulation."
"Autoline owns perfect hardwares including automation production lines and strict QC systems which keep the quality and quantity reached the
highest standards."
"we Autoline KAIXEN , creates innovative lighting solutions that enhance the interaction of automotive light with the world best quality products." ...and many more gems of quality grammar and style. If you want more reading, let me direct you here and
here
to learn more about plug and play kits versus proper HID setups.
I'll leave you with a picture of the actual installed kit, from luda300zx:
Tell me that is what HIDs are supposed to look like. I'll never believe you. The proof is in the output, if you will. I can see with my own eyes the results. For a more detailed analysis of the hid plug and play kit pictures, take a look here: La-Z-Link
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Joe
Sport 530bb/Inconel
AIM: hoyatiger81
510rwhp/520rwtq at 23 psi
"You probably never even got you hands dirty working on a car. Take care toolbox!" --djtz1
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